（Jennifer’s note: below is the transcript of my exclusive interview with a medical professional who has worked at Zhongnan Hospital of Wuhan University during the peak of COVID19 pandemic, from Jan. to Mar 2020. )
（曾錚注：以下是我對在武漢疫情高峯期間在武漢大學中南醫院工作過的一線醫務人員的獨家採訪的內容的中英文文字聽打稿。採訪以英文進行，中文是我翻譯的。）
Watch video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGOWwOTxLeE
Q 問: So i just call you Larry, right？ 我就叫你拉里（Larry），对吗？
A 答：Okay. 好的。
Q問: Larry tell us where were you during the Wuhan pandemic? 拉里，请告诉我们，武汉疫情期间你在哪里？
A答 : I was right at the epicenter. I was in I was right at the epicenter. I was in 我就在疫情中心。
Q問：What were you doing there, and exactly when were you there? 我在武汉中南医院。 你在那里做什么？你在那里的确切时间是？
A答 : I was there from the end of January till the end of march. 从一月底到三月底我都在那里。
Q問：So you worked there for two months？ 所以你在那里工作了两个月？
A答 : Yes, I worked there for two months. 是的，我在那里工作了两个月。
Q問： As a doctor or as a nurse? What was your role? 作为医生还是护士？ 你的角色是什么？
A答 : That part I cannot say. But I have been with medical practitioners. 这部分我不能说，但是我与医务人员在一起。
Q問： So tell us what did you see and what did you do there？告诉我们，你看到了什么，你在那里做了什么？
A答 : Well, in the first several days when I worked there, the end of January, I saw a lot of people seeking for medical help. They’re stacking up in our hospital. 我在那里工作的头几天，一月底时，我看到很多人来求医。 医院里面挤满了人。
Q問：So before that, were you already in Wuhan? And when and how did you learn about the virus issue ? 那么在那之前，您是否已经在武汉，您是何时，以及如何得知该病毒问题的？
A答 : Some of my friends told me before the pandemic. It was January 1st, I believe .我的一些朋友在大流行之前告诉我的，我相信是在1月1号。
And I was warned about possible pandemic spreading in the city. 我被警告瘟疫可能正在武汉市蔓延。
Q問：From who? Who warned you? 从谁那听说的？ 谁警告你的？
A答 :From… That part I cannot say. But he is a medical practitioner too. 那部分我不能说，但是他也是一名医务人员。
Q問：Did you hear about Li Wenliang’s arrest at that time？那时你听说过李文亮被捕的消息吗？
A答 : No. 没有。
Q問：No? But, you know, I remember the official media, CCTV, their news, whatever channel, actually announced that eight doctors were arrested or punished for spreading rumor on the internet. But you didn’t know about that? 没有吗？但是，你知道，我记得官方媒体中央电视台，或者什么其他的新闻频道 ，宣布八名医生因散播谣言被逮捕或处罚。你不知道吗？
A答 : No. I do not have an interest watching China news. 不。 我没兴趣看中国新闻。
Q問：So you didn’t knew Li Wenliang’s case, but your friend or whatever source warned you about a possible… What did he say to you exactly? 所以你不知道李文亮的案子。你的朋友或其他消息来源警告过你?
他到底怎么说的？
A答： A possible pandemic, probably SARS, is spreading silently in Wuh an city. 某种大瘟疫，可能是非典（SARS)，正无声无息地在武汉市蔓延
Q問：And then what was your action then ? 然后你做了什么？
A答：Well, I told them that I will be careful, but I wasn’t really sure about this, so i didn’t take it that seriously. 我告诉他们我会小心，但我不是很确定发生了什么，所以我没有把它当真。
Q問：And how about other people’s reactions? 其他人的反应如何？
A答：They lived a normal life, doing their normal jobs in hospital. Nothing changes from my aspect. 他们过着正常的生活，做着正常的医院工作，在我看来没有任何改变
Q問：Okay, so from what you gathered, did the authorities try to do something to prevent the virus or prevent this, you can say infection, from spreading in Wuhan? 就你所知，当局有无试图做一些事情来防止
病毒或做了什么措施防止病毒在武汉的蔓延？
A答：Well, I can’t remember the exact date, but before someday in mid of January, hey didn’t do nothing. They’ve done nothing, nothing to prevent it. They just constantly, just constantly say it’s not a problem, just a rumor, something like that. 我不记得确切的日期，但在一月中旬的某一天之前 t他们什么也没做, ，他们只是不断地不断地说没什么问题，这只是谣言。
Q問：So when did you start to feel that things were not that right?所以你什么时候开始觉得事情不太对劲？
A答：It’s around the same time, my friends in hospital tell me they started to wear personal protective gear to do their jobs, no matter which department they were in, which specialties they were in. They started to wear masks and the personal protective equipment.大约就在同时，我在医院的朋友告诉我他们开始穿戴个人防护装备，不管他们是在哪个科室、哪个专科工作。
Q問：So when was that? 他们开始戴口罩、穿防护服。那是什么时候？
A答：Some time in the mid of January. Mid of January. 一月中旬的某个时候。一月中旬。
Q問：So before that you didn’t take any precaution to to prevent the problem? 所以在此之前你没有采取任何预防措施，以预防这个问题？
A答：I did take some precautions. I bought myself two boxer masks, and some alcohol. But I didn’t use that frequently because I didn’t think that was a serious issue. 我确实采取了一些预防措施，我买了两盒口罩和一些酒精，但不经常使用，因为我没觉得这是一个严重的问题。
Q問：So when did you realize this is very serious? 所以你什么时候意识到这很严重？
A答：When they told me that. 当他们告诉我的时候。
Q問：When did you start to work in the hospital? 你什么时候开始在医院工作？
A答： It started January 23rd, when the city is under lockdown, I cannot leave. And they told me to help, because I have some skills and professionals which could aid them while they are short on hands. 1 月 23 日，武汉封城的时候，我无法离开，他们告诉,，需要我帮忙，因为我有一些专业技能和专业知识。我能帮助他们缓解人手紧缺。
Q問： And then you started working there as a volunteer? 然后你开始在那里作为志愿者工作？
A答：Volunteer. I didn’t get any pay. 是的，志愿者。我没有拿过报酬。
Q問：Okay, so tell us what impressed you most in the hospital. 告诉我们你在医院里印象最深的事
A答：The carelessness of the authorities, and they really want to mask all things up. 当局的冷血，他们真的想掩盖一切
Q問：What did you mean by that? 你指的是什么事情？
A答：We have some secretary of communist party of the hospital coming every single day, telling the head, or the director of the department to write how many people died. And there were bodies piling up around parking lot what was uses to park ambulances. And I was not allowed to get close to take pictures. And on the WeChat which was used as a local alert of pandemic, they’re giving fake data. 我们有一些共产党书记，每天都来医院告诉不同科室的主任，写下多少人死亡。那里有很多尸体，堆积在原本用来停放救护车的停车场。 我被禁止接近拍照。在微信上有本地疫情警报，他们在提供虚假数据。
Q問：Fake data? So how fake was it? How many bodies did you see and what the numbers were actually given out? 数据有多假？你看到有多少尸体？微信上给出的数字是多少？
A答：I cannot count, but from my personal judgment, I’d say that for the first three to five days I worked there, the bodies, the pile of body exceeding one thousand. 我无法清点，但根据我个人的判断，我在那儿工作的前三到五天尸体堆积的数量超过一千。
Q問：One thousand? 一千？
A答：Yes, that I could be sure, because I was there several years ago. I know how big that parking lot is. 是的，我可以肯定，因为几年前我去过那里，我知道那个停车场有多大。
Q問：So they just put over 1000 bodies at that parking lot? Why? Why did they do that? 所以他们在停车场放了一千 多具尸体。为什么？ 他们为什么这样做？
A答：I do not know. People are dying from different reasons, they die from, they’re dying from lack of medications. For example, they’re diabetic, they need medications to keep them alive and if they fail to keep on medication they will have very high glucose in the blood, and they will die. But they will die due to ketoacidosis. 我不知道。人们死于不同的原因，死于缺乏药物。例如他们患有糖尿病 ，他们需要药物来维持生命，如果他们不能继续服药，他们血液中的血糖会非常高，他们会死，他们会死于酮症酸中毒。
Q問：So are you telling us within three days… 你说三天之内
A答：Three to five days. I cannot be sure. 三到五天，我不能确定（具体天数）
Q問：Three to five days over one thousand people died in that one… 三到五天，一千多人在那一家……
A答：In one hospital hospital. 一家医院。
Q問：So they all died after they went to your hospital for whatever reasons? 所以他们到你们医院后都死了，出于各种原因？
A答：I don’t know. Probably they’ve been, they’ve been collected around the area, collected from, I’d say from the apartments from the community. Probably they haven’t ever reached the hospital. 我不确定，也可能他们从医院附近的地方收集而来。来自附近社区的公寓，可能他们还没到医院（就死了）
Q問：So did the hospital actually send people out to collect bodies from people’s house? 医院真的会派人去从人们的家里收集尸体吗？
A答：Not from what I heard of. I was just guessing. 没有，我没听说过。我只是在猜测。
Q問：So probably most of them actually died inside your hospital? 所以，他们大多数实际上是死在你们医院里的?
A答：Yes. 是的。
Q問：So what were the numbers they actually gave out? （当局）给出的数据是多少？
A答：The numbers on the WeChat given out is, for the first three to five days, with something a little bit over 100. 当局在微信上数据，前三到五天，大约比100多一点。
Q問：So it’s a 10 times difference at least? 所以是大约十倍的差异？
A答：They were saying they’re confirmed, confirmed deaths from COVID-19.But actually, we don’t know. 他们说那些人是确诊死于新冠病毒的， 但实际上我们不知道。
Q問：Okay. So do you have any idea of, in regular times, what kind of, the number should be for normal cases without this pandemic? Usually how many people died in that hospital per day? 那你是否知道
在平常的日子里，大约是什么死亡数量？通常这个医院每天会有多少人死亡？
A答：It depends. Most likely people won’t die in most of departments, except those who have cancers and other serious diseases like cardiac diseases and pulmonary diseases, people like that have much more tendency to die at the time, but I would say it’s a very small number, could be 15 to 100 per day, that’s the most, I could say. As in China, people mostly refuse to die in hospital. If they cannot be cured they will be informed by the attendant physician and they will just leave and die in their home. 情况不一，大多数科室不会有死亡病例，除非是癌症和其他严重疾病，如心脏病，和肺部疾病的人，这些严重病例有更大的死亡可能性。但是我可以说通常人数不多，大约每天死亡15到100人。最多就这么多了，我敢说。因为许多中国人不想死在医院。如果他们不能被治愈，医生会告诉他们，他们会出院，死在家里。
Q問：So, I think for one hospital that kind of number is very astonishing, and the pandemic has been going on in the world for a while. It seems we didn’t see that kind of huge number of deaths. So why did you think that kind of number would appear in that hospital, you mean Zhongnan, Wuhan Zhongnan Hospital, right? So what’s your explanation for that kind of, I think, a still very astonishing number? 我想这个数量对于一个医院来很惊人。此瘟疫 在世界范围内已经传播一段时间了，但我们也没有听说过（一家医院）有这么大的死亡人数。你认为为什么会有这么多人死亡在那个医院，你说是中南武汉中南医院，对吧？你认为可能的原因是？我还是觉得这个数字太令人震惊了。
A答：I have a hypothesis. People probably… the virus itself has been spreading in the community, and Wuhan, to be fair, Wuhan is a very densely populated city，and people, and the virus is probably spreading at the end of December, or even early January, some time being, and people were together, celebrating new year and they’re enjoying their holidays. So I would say that’s probably the main cause of wide spreading. And the authority trying to hide all the things, try not to alert people, due to the political reasons. 我有个假设，人们可能……病毒已经在社区传播了，而武汉，公平地说，武汉是一个人口密集度很高的城市，病毒可能已经传播了，在十二月底到一月初，人们聚集在一起，庆祝新年，享受假期，我想在这就是大范围传播的原因。政府出于政治原因在掩盖真相，不想警告人民
Q問：So how many hospitals do you know are there in Wuhan? If one hospital had so many dead people, so what’s your estimation of the situation in entire Wuhan? Do you have any rough ideas? 你知道武汉有多少医院吗？如果一个医院有这么多人死去，你估计整个武汉的情况怎样？你大致的猜测是多少?
A答：I didn’t count, but there are there are many hospitals at the same level as Wuhan Zhongnan hospital. They’re big, have over a thousand beds, have over a thousand bedding wards, and they have a lot of medical practitioners. People tend to go there and there are some medium-sized medical centers, hospitals and small clinics. I have been estimating that with my friend in hospital during a break, during our break. We’d say it’s 14 to 18 times than the official announced sum. 我没有计算，但是武汉有很多和中南医院同等级别的医院，它们很大，有超过一千张病床，有超过一千张病床的住院区，有许多医务工作者。人们会去那些医院。还有一些中等规模的医疗中心、医院和小诊所。我和我的朋友在工作休息的时候估计，（真实数字）大约是14-18倍于官方公布数字。
Q問：4000 is the official number. If you times 4000 with, like 18, that’s how many? Nearly…官方数字是4000，乘以18的話，是接近於……
A答：Nearly 80,000. Nearly 80,000 people died in there 大约就是8万人。大约8万人死于那里
Q問：What did you think when you saw that many bodies? 当你看到那么多的尸体时候你是怎么想的？
A答：For a while I stopped thinking, to be honest. That was a very painful situation for you to see especially when you work in medical field. 有一段时间我停止了思考，坦率说，那是非常令人痛苦的情景，特别是你是个医务人员。
Q問：Were you scared? Or… 你感到害怕吗？還是……
A答：No, I’m not scared, but I was hurt. 不，我不害怕，但我很受伤害
Q問：Why? 爲什麼？
A答：I don’t want to see that massive casualties due to a stupid control of public, of politics and policies. 我不想看到那样大规模的死亡，仅仅因为愚蠢的政治控制和政策。
Q問：What do you mean by stupid control of… 你說愚蠢的控制指的是……
A答：Because they tried to hide information, they try to hide information, they didn’t inform people how dangerous this might be, they only tell people, like, this is dangerous and it’s transmissible between humans on January 20th. After that only three days, and the whole city is locked down. no one had any chance to leave, and before that no one had any chance to prevent it. 因为他们试图隐藏信息。他们试图隐瞒消息，他们不警告人们（病毒）的可怕，他们只是在1月20号才告诉人们这是危险的，是人传人的。那之后才三天，整个城市就封锁了。在些之前没有人有机会离开，也没人有机会采取措施阻止疾病的传播。
Q問：So you think this is pretty much a man-made disaster? 所以你认为这是一个人为的灾难？
A答：At that time I thought that was a natural disaster. From that aspect I already hate the government for hiding it, which resulting in so many people’s deaths and they’re not ready to take the responsibilities. 在那个时候我还以为是自然灾难。但就是那样我已经痛恨政府隐瞒信息，导致那么多人死亡。他们也不打算为此负责。
Q問：How did the ordinary people cope with this kind of situation? 普通人是如何应对这种情况的？
A答：I don’t know. But for some part I heard, and I saw a little bit They’re starving at their home, blocking [blocked] in their home, and who knows what they were doing in that room? I don’t know. 我不是非常清楚。但是从我听说和观察到的一点点，他们在家中挨饿，不能离开家。谁知道在他们的家中发生了什么？我不知道。
Q問：And how did you cope? I heard there were lack of protective equipments, clothings… 那么你是如何应对的？我听说缺乏个人防护服……
A答：Yeah there there were major shortages of personal protective equipments, and we tried to get some from the plaza in Hanyang District on January 27 or 28th, I cannot remember time exactly, but somewhere near that, before February 1st, to be sure. And we cannot get anything. 是的，那个时候缺乏防护装备。我们试图从汉阳区去拿一些（防护装备），一月二十七或二十八号，我记不清确切是哪天，但就那时左右，肯定是早于二月一号。但我们拿不到。
Q問：Why? nobody was there distributing things? 为什么？没人发吗？
A答：The things were there, distributing, but we are not allowed to touch it. They’re distributing to someone they know, which we do not. 东西在那儿，在发，但不让我们碰，他们只发给他们认识的人。我们不认识人。
Q問：Okay, so it’s still a problem of whether you have connections with the authorities, right? 所以，这还是一个你跟当官的有没有关系的问题，对吗？
A答：I don’t know, maybe. Okay. 我不知道，可能吧。
Q問：I heard as the entire city was locked down, so there was no public traffic, so how did you go to work every day and what did you see on your way and how other people’s situations were? 我听说整个武汉都封了，没有公共交通，你每天怎么去工作的？你在路上看见了什么？其他人的情况怎样？
A答：I live in one of my friends’ home and he takes me to hospital every every day by his rid. You’re right, the traffic was shut down, only the cars with labels that say they are medical staff or volunteer transporter, and they can, for them, they can go on the road, only a little bit. And during the time on the road most likely you will see police cars, and the military trucks loaded with soldiers and guns. 我住在一个朋友家，他每天开车带我去医院。你说的对，交通都停了，只有医务人员或志愿运输人员的车子可以上街，只有很少一点车。那时在路上你很有可能看见警车和装满了持枪士兵的军用卡车。
Q問：Guns? Did you see the soldiers and guns? 枪？你看见士兵和枪了？
A答：Yes, but I do not know if they have bulletins in guns. 是的，但我不知道枪里面有没有子弹。
Q問：So did the public know that, are you saying that Wuhan is actually under military control to some kind of extent? 那公众知道吗？你是说武汉从某种程度被军管了吗？
A答：There was a local news and on probably February 1st or somewhere I cannot say the date exactly, saying that several divisions from surrounding provinces are coming to help lockdown of Hubei province, which Wuhan city was in. 当地的新闻，大约是2月1号吧，我记不准了，说附近几个省份有几个师兵力来帮助封锁湖北省，武汉也在湖北境内。
Q問：So what were their soldiers doing during the lockdown in Wuhan? Why were they there? 这些士兵在做什么？在武汉封城期间？他们为什么在那儿？
A答：I don’t know what they were doing. I just say, I would like to say they’re probably patrolling, the military trucks are patrolling and they have soldiers inside and I could see the guys on their hands. 我不清楚他们在做什么，我想他们在巡逻吧，军用卡车在巡逻，车内有士兵，我能看见士兵手中有枪。
Q問：So do you think that it is necessary to send military there? Was there any possibility that the city would go out of control because of this pandemic? 你认为有必要派士兵去吗？是因为疫情有可能导致形式失控吗？
A答：I’m not a professional military strategist, so i couldn’t say. I couldn’t answer the first question. But if you would like me to guess, or do my best to try, I would say , well, if people are dying in their home, they cannot survive, they’ll probably do anything and military is probably there to prevent such things to happen. 我不是军事专家，我无法回答第一个问题。如果让我猜测的话，如果人民在家中等死，无法生存，也许他们什么都能做得出来，军队的目的就是防止这样的事情发生
Q問：But we didn’t hear about any such kind of riot, like, attempt, or anything that is out of order in Wuhan. We only heard that everything is controlled, and sometimes people, we heard, we saw a video of a woman sitting in the balcony and trying to seek help. So it seems it’s quite under control. Only people couldn’t seek any help. So I was a little bit surprised to hear that there were soldiers in the city. So what others… 但是我们没有听说武汉有任何乱子，或失控的事情出现。我们只听到一切都在掌控中，只是有时候，我听说，我看过一个视频，一个妇女在阳台上寻求帮助，好像局面都在掌控之中，只是人们无法获得帮助。所以我听到有士兵在那里，有点吃惊。
A答： I would like to say the soldier is probably just aiding that part. The major reason of people who does not try to do anything to survive, to get their rights, is because, well, they don’t have the habit to do so. They just blindly follow the garment, they believe the government. 我想说，士兵们可能只是去帮忙的。人们没有为了生存，或为了自己的权利而无所不为，主要的原因是，他们不习惯这样做。他们只是盲目服从政府，他们相信政府
Q問：So after you saw thousands of bodies, what happened to those bodies? 你看见上千具尸体，那那些尸体后来怎样了呢？
A答：They were dragged away by some different vans. For the first several days, probably a week, there were only one or two vehicles extracting them from the parking lot, and two weeks after, which is when the first wave of medical staff who came in as reinforcements, at the time point, and they started to extract more, maybe five to six vehicles and then bigger vehicles. 它们被拉走了，用不同的车拉走了。头几天，可能是一周之内，一个只有一两辆车来拉停车场的尸体，两周之后，那是当第一批外省医务人员到达之时，从那时起，他们拉走的更多，可能一天有五六辆车来拉，而且是更大的车。
Q問：So we heard story from outside that all the cremation, crematory or funeral houses were overwhelmed during that period. So what did you know about these stories? Did you know about this kind of situation? 我们在外面听说，火葬场或殡仪馆那期间已经应对不过来了，对此你知道些什么吗？你知道这种情况吗？
A答：After the lock of the city, I was on the taxi, talking to the taxi driver. That taxi driver happened to have driven a van to extract bodies in Hanyang District. And he told me there are a lot of people there. Sometimes they will just toss their bodies onto the parking lot of the funeral house and led them to pick up the rest. So another one is, I have a pretty close friend. Her grandmother died because she cannot get dialysis during the pandemic and compensatory. She went to, like a very high intense, but very high intense dialysis after the unlock, which was like three times a week, and get some gastric ulcers, losing tons of blood, end up in anemia and died from that and her grandma had a hip transplant made from titanium, which is kind of metal. When she was asked to take her ashes, there’s no metal in the ash and people told her that the titanium was melt which is not possible. That’s all I know about funeral house and some incineration things. 封城以后， 有一天我坐出租车，我跟司机聊天，那个司机刚好在汉阳区开过拉尸体的车。他告诉我，人多得不得了，有时候他们会把尸体扔到火葬场的停车场的地上，让他们自己去捡起来。另一件事是，我有个很要好的朋友，她的祖母死了，因为在疫情期间她不能去做透析，不能补救，所以解封后，她加强了（透析）强度，一周做三次，结果得了胃溃疡，失血过多，最终得了贫血，并因此而死。她祖母做过钛合金的髋关节移植手术。 钛合金是一种金属。她去拿祖母骨灰的时候，骨灰里没有金属。人们告诉她钛合金被烧化了，这是不可能的。这些就是我知道的关于火葬场的事。
Q問：So did you ever talk to any patients who actually had the virus issue or infected with, what’s the..oh, COVID19? 那你有没有直接接触过被病毒感染的病人？
A答：I worked in… department. To be honest, we do not have a single patient who has [been] confirmed to have COVID, but I believe at least I had in contact with 20 of them, who was actually positive on COVID, because the government refused to test them. If you refuse to test them, and they die you can just, to be, you know, it’s actually, it’s convenient to say that they’re not dying from COVID, and they’re just dying from other reasons. We do not have proof that they’re diagnosed positive. 我在XX部门工作（为保护爆料人隐去部门名称），坦率地说，我们一个被确诊的病人也没有，但我相信我至少接触过20个，这些人是阳性，但政府拒绝给他们做检测。如果你不检测，他们死了，那就可以很方便地说，他们不是死于新冠病毒，他们死于其他病因。我们没有证据证明这些人是确诊为阳性的。
Q問：So, right now, I think China is… often… There were many, many times when there were only several cases, new cases found in a city, and they test the whole city, everyone in the city got tested, so why those patients or those people who could be infected were not tested then? 那现在，中国经常……很多时候，只有几个案例，一个城市只有几个新增案例，他们会做全城检测，每个人都得做，那为什么那时候不给有可能被感染的人做呢？
A答：At that time they just wanted to avoid any documented evidences that they have major outbreak and they’re doing it now, I have two hypotheses. The reason why they do it now, the first one is to say, we do that every single day when we see a pandemic, so it was not that severe in Wuhan, that lockdown, and the lockdown in Wuhan is not that severe, it’s just our routine when we see pandemic they want to desensitizing the society. The other hypothesis I have had is that they’re not really confident about their vaccine, that’s what I could say. 那时候他们不想有任何的文件来证明这里已经在大瘟疫在流行了，而他们现在这样做，我认为有两个原因，第一个是说，每当有瘟疫出现我们就这样做，所以武汉的情况不算严重，那个封城，武汉的封城不算个事，只是每当有疫情出现时的常规操作，他们想要使社会脱敏（维稳）。 我的另一个假设是，他们对他们的疫苗没有真正的信心。这是我可以说的。
Q問：Okay. So in the early days, like in January last year, they actually refused to test people so you no idea? 那么在早期，比如去年一月，因为他们实际上拒绝做检测，所以你不知道……
A答：Yes, and and there were policies about compensation to medical staff who has been exposed to COVID patient and get infected. For that part they save money by refusing to give tests to medical staff. 是的，而且有政策规定，要对接触过新冠患者并被感染的医务人员进行赔偿，在这点上，他们不给医务人员做检测，好节省资金。
Q問：So how serious is this problem for… no testing… So how many do you do you have any idea how many more people could have got infected and and also for the medical professionals, what kind of damage was done to them because of this lacking of testing? 那这个问题有多严重呢？你认为有多少人因为不检测的缘故而被感染呢？对医务人员来说，由于缺乏测试，对他们造成了什么样的损害？
A答：I would say it was huge, but I don’t know, I don’t know really. 损害是巨大的，但我不知道(到底多大），我真的不知道。
Q問：So how did they, your colleagues, cope with this kind of situation? 你的同事们如何应对这种情况的呢？
A答：Well at that time we most of us live like a zombie. We sleep and drive to hospital, work, and probably sleep, take a nap, eat something, and go back home, and hope we do not get any symptoms. That’s all. 那时候我们大多数人都像行尸走肉一样。我们睡觉，开车去医院，工作，可能再打个盹，吃点东西，然后回家，希望我们别出现任何（新冠）症状。就这些了。
Q問：So but when you see so many people are dying, how did you feel? Or did you ever think what can we do better, or have you ever think about what kind of help we could get from the government to improve the situation? 但当你看到这么多人在死亡时，你的感受怎样？或者你有没有想过我们怎样可以做得更好，或者你有没有想过，我们可以从政府那里得到什么样的帮助来改善这种情况？
A答：To be honest, I don’t trust the government ever, and after that incident during the late January, I already gave up on them. I do not have any expectation from Chinese government. 说实话，我从来没有相信过政府，在1月下旬那次事件之后，我已经放弃了对他们的希望。我对中国政府没有任何期望
Q問：So when did they actually tell people this is very serious, you need to be careful, or when did they start to be honest with the people? 那他们什么时候开始告诉人们，这是非常严重的，你需要小心，或者他们什么时候开始对人民诚实的？
A答：They never. 从没诚实过。
Q問：They never? 从来没有？
A答：The only thing, they said it was serious and transmissible between humans was on January 20th, by the very famous pulmonologist, Zhong Nanshan, I bet you’ve heard [about] him. 唯一的，就是他们到了一月二十号才说这很严重，人传人，由非常著名的肺病专家钟南山说的，我打赌你听说过他。
Q問：Yes, he he is very, very famous. I think everybody who followed the news heard about him. So when did you think was this situation worse during the lockdown? 是的，他非常非常有名。我想每个关注新闻的人都听说过他。那你认为封城期间何时情况最糟呢？
A答：To be honest, it was never better. 说实话，情况从来没有好过。
Q問：Never better? But now it should be okay? 从来没有好过？但是现在应该好了？
A答：You know , from their aspect, that’s all they could want: There’s no riot, there’s no discontent everything in their control, so everything is good for them, never better. But in our aspect, well, can be worse, but what are you expecting? What can we do? We were just prisoners on that land. 你知道，从他们这方面来说，这些就是他们所希望的：没有暴乱，没有不满，一切都在他们的掌控之中，所以一切对他们来说都是好的，从未更好过。 但从我们的角度来看，情况可以是更糟的，但你能指望什么呢？ 我们能做什么呢？我们只是那片土地上的囚犯。
Q問：Yes, but I mean, because people start dying slowly and then, I mean the worst situation is when there were most people who are dying every day. Do you have any idea when that kind of situation peak? And then slowly maybe everybody got, maybe immunity to this virus and then things started to get over or you get better. Do you have any idea whether there was such kind of peak? 是的，但我的意思是，人们死得慢一些了，最糟糕的情况是每天有大量的人死亡，你知道高峰出现在何时吗？慢慢的，人们有免疫力了，疫情慢慢过去了，情况好转了，你知道何时算高峰？
A答：I understand your question, but for that for that conclusion you need data, you need data and statistics, which you cannot get any real thing from Chinese government. 我理解你的问题，但要得出这样的结论，你需要数据，你需要数据和统计数字，但你无法从中国政府那里得到任何真实的东西。
Q問：But from your own personal experience of working in that hospital you must have felt when you have the most patient coming in and then suddenly someday the numbers… 但从你自己在医院工作的个人经验来看，你一定感觉到有一个病人最多的时候，然后有一天病人……
A答：The numbers drop? 病人少了？
Q問：Yes, do you have any idea? 是的。你有概念吗？
A答：It’s from the beginning of February till the mid of March. 是从二月初到三月中旬的时候。
Q問：Why did that happen? 为什么会这样？ It is because for those who were infected, [they] already died, and for those who haven’t infected, they already got immunity or… Why the situation improved? 是因为那些被感染的人已经死了，而那些没有被感染的人， 他们已经有了免疫力，或者… 为什么情况会改善？
A答：If we look at the data of the global pandemic, we will realize that most strain of COVID19 is not that fatal. The fatality rate is like only two percent around, so most of people probably get infected and they get the immunity against it which the westerners have said it’s herd immunity, and that might be a major reason. And another reason it might be, they have set up some, that they have set up some temporary hospital outside urban area, in one… 如果我们看一下全球大流行的数据，我们会发现大多数新冠病毒株并不是那么致命的。致死率是2%左右。很多人可能被感染了，有了免疫力了，西方人说这是群体免疫，这可能是主要原因。另一个原因可能是，他们已经设立了一些 ，他们建了一些临时医院，在武汉郊区，在一个……
Q問：Yes, I heard that there’s a Houshenshan and whatever… 是的，我听说有一个火神山医院，还有什么……
A答：Yes, that was that was called, and then they took the dormitory of different colleges, high schools and put patients in there. 是的，那就是它的名字，然后他们把一些大学和中学的宿舍征用了，把病人放在那里。
Q問：Okay, so to reduce the the load or the situation of the hospitals? 哦，为了减少医院的负担？
A答：Yes. 是的。
Q問：What else do you think we should know, that the outside world still doesn’t know? What else you think you need to tell the world about what happened in Wuhan? 你认为还有什么是我们应该知道的，而外界还不知道的？你认为你还有什么需要告诉世界的、发生在武汉的事情？
A答：Well there’s an incident I witnessed on probably February 5th, yes 5th, could be, and on that night and my friend drove me home and we went past a tunnel that crossing a very busy business district, and there were people sheltering in there, those people, who was not living in Wuhan, but but cannot return to their home during the spring festival, and they they were sheltering there, and I saw people, probably someone from official, otherwise I don’t know how they got on the street without any authorization. And they try to flush them out with a hose, it’s a fire hose. That was a very cold day, and in the night, the people who tried to disperse them get them all wet. 有一个事件，我大概是在2月5日目睹的，是的，可能是5号，那晚我朋友开车送我回家，我们经过一个隧道，这个隧道穿过一个非常繁忙的商业区，有一些人在那里躲避，这些人不住在武汉，但在春节期间不能回家，他们在那避寒。我看到一些人，可能是官方的人，否则他们不可能在没有任何授权的情况下上街，他们拿水管去冲那些人，是消防水管。 那是一个非常寒冷的日子，而且是在晚上。试图驱散他们的人把那些人身上都弄湿了
Q問：So why do you think they did that to those people? 那么你认为他们为什么要对那些人这样做？
A答：I don’t know. My aspect of, which I had lived so many years in China, they just don’t tolerate people who had a bad situation in their lives. and the government encourage them. 我不知道。从我在中国生活过很多年的经历来说，他们不能容忍处于很糟糕状态下的人，而且政府鼓励他们[欺負弱者]
Q問：So what do you think the world should learn from this pandemic, or from what’s happening in Wuhan, from your perspective? 你认为世界应该从这次大瘟疫，或武汉发生的事情中学到什么？
A答：It’s hard to conclude. But if I really would like to say something, it will be, do not trust that government that lies to you so many times, lies to everyone, not only their people, lies to the international society, anything. No, don’t trust them. That’s all I want to say.
If you just, by default, you think everything they say is fake, you just realize that, something is, you just realize that there’s something it’s not that mysterious in your life anymore. You know why the word became like this, you know why we get worse and worse because they’re lying to you and you just buying in it.
这很难下结论。但如果我真的想说些什么，那将是，不要相信那个多次对你撒谎的政府。它对所有人撒谎，不仅是对他们的人民，也对国际社会撒謊，任何事都如此。不，不要相信他们。这就是我想说的全部。
应该把他们所说的一切都默认为谎言。这样你就会意识到，有些东西，它不再是那么神秘了，你会知道为什么我们变得越来越糟，因为他们在欺骗你，而你却相信它。
Q問：So do you still have connections with medical professionals in China and how this situation is now as far as you know? 那你还和中国的医务人员有联系吗？就你所知，中国现在情况如何？
A答：No, because I took a lot of sensitive data from them and people just delete me, you know, they like, block me on every social media they could, because they want to keep themselves safe, which i can understand. 没有，因为我从他们那里拿了很多敏感数据，人们就把我删除了，他们在所有的社交媒体上屏蔽我，因为他们想保护自己的安全，这我可以理解。
Q問：So because they know you are outside China now, so they think it’s no longer safe to talk to you, right?所以，因为他们知道你现在在境外，所以他们认为和你说话不再安全了，对吗？
A答：Yes, they will be monitored, followed, anything you could consider. 是的，他们会被监视，被跟踪，任何事都会发生。
Q問：So you don’t talk to them anymore? 所以你不再和他们说话了？
A答：No. 不说了。
Q問：Okay. So recently, I think the US government issued a report about the investigation into the origin of the virus and the conclusion is because we couldn’t get data or help from the Chinese government, so we really don’t know. So what’s your thought about this? 最近美国政府发布了一个调查报告，关于病毒起源的，结论是，因为我们无法获取数据，或者从中国政府获得帮助，所以我们无法得出结论。你对此的看法是什么？
A答：Previously I said you do not trust them, and they are the suspect, you’re trying to… Well, the report of United States government gave out, it’s basically saying that because the suspect refused to cooperate with us so we cannot find him guilty, which is ridiculous. On top of that I said they just lie, they never did anything. Except their atrocities was real, but they never accepted and they never admitted it. 如我先前所说，不要相信他们。他们是嫌疑犯，而你想要……这么说吧，美国政府给出的报告，相当于说，因为嫌疑犯不配合，所以我们无法确认嫌犯有罪。这太荒谬可笑了。我说过，他们就会撒谎，他们从没做过真事。只有他们的暴行是真的，但他们从未接受，也从未承认这点。
Q問：So anything else you want to tell us? 你还有什么要告诉我们的吗？
A答：About the whistleblower, Dr. Li you talked, you mentioned before. 关于吹哨人，李文亮医生，你说过，你之前提到过他。
Q問：Yes, what do you know about him? 是的，对他，你知道些什么？
A答：I didn’t know him, I didn’t know him by the time I was informed about the disease, though he was on CCTV. 我不认识他，在我被告知疫情时，我还不认识他，虽然他出现在央视新闻。
Q問：When did you hear [about] him for the first time? 那你第一次听说他是什么时候？
A答：I heard [about] him for the first time on the 1st of February. He was actually an eye doctor, which had no reason to be exposed to COVID19 so early. 第一次听说他是在二月一号。他是个眼科医生，没有理由这么早接触到新冠病毒。
By the time, which is February 1st, he was already infected for several days, which is very strange. 到那时
也就是2月1日，他已经被感染了好几天，这非常奇怪。
You know, I mentioned with you, the RNA test was not given to medical staffs and patients, most likely not.
But they gave it to him pretty quick and he’s confirmed positive, and he was locked in a private room, private quarantine room, did not receive any treatment.
我跟你提过，RNA测试并没有 给医务人员和病人做，多数时候没做。但他们很快就给他做了，他被确诊了，被关在单间，单独隔离，没得到任何治疗。
We cannot see any.. I don’t have the pictures and I already sent them to authorities in the United States, the picture of his medical history, and medication used, procedure did, consultation records, everything, and he he did not receive any treatment until the day he dies.
我们看不到任何……我现在没图片了，我已经发给美国政府了，就是他的病历图片，用了什么药，治疗过程，咨询记录，所有的。他到死都没得到任何治疗。
The day he dies, in the morning they gave him a prednisone which is used to reduce the resistance in his trachea, trying to make him breathe easier and there was a consultation between an intensivist and a pulmonologist, but nothing after, nothing they did after that, no prescriptions, no procedures, no therapy, until that day, the same night, it’s around, it’s on 8 p.m on that day, his partial oxygen pressure dropped to forty percent, they didn’t do anything, just did ultrasound of heart and gave him prednisone again, atropine and epinephrine , didn’t do anything else.
在他死的那天，早上他们给他泼尼松龙，减少气管阻力，让他呼吸容易一些，然后有重症和肺部疾病专家会诊，但是会诊后却什么都没有做，没有用药，没有治疗措施，直到同一天的夜里，8点左右，他的血氧饱和度下降到40%，他们还是什么都没有做，只是做了心脏超声，再次给他泼尼松，阿托品和肾上腺素，其他的（治疗）就没有了。
And on the Weibo, the social media in China, someone said he was dead at probably 9:20 p.m that time, that day and they try to resurrect him, but basically he is already under resurrected for 30 or over 30 minutes at that time, but the communist party, the secretary of communist party in the hospital want them to keep going, which is meaningless, because everyone who ever went to medical school, they know that 30 minutes after trying to resurrect someone and you fail, that’s fail, he or she is dead.
在微博上，中国的社交媒体，有人爆料说，那一天晚上9：20他已经去世，他们试图对他进行心肺复苏，但那时，基本上他已经进行了心肺复苏30 分钟，或 30 分钟以上，但是医院的党委书记让他们（医务人员）继续做心肺复苏。这是无意义的，因为任何读过医学院的人都知道，超过30分钟心肺复苏失败了，那就是失败了。人已经死了。
But they kept doing that for several hours till next day like 2 or 3 a.m, [then] announce him dead.
但他们持续做了好几个小时，直到次日凌晨2-3点钟，然后宣布他死亡。
And there there’s a very interesting record he was given an incubation and mechanical ventilation at 10:30 p.m around that time.
奇怪的是他的医疗记录显示他被气管插管使用人工呼吸机，在晚上10:30左右。
Q問：So you mean after his… 所以你的意思是在他……
A答：After his death. 在他死后。
Q問：So why did they do that? 那么他们为什么这样做呢？
A答：I don’t know. Probably just for show, and people… I was not there, but one of my very close friends was there, and she said they just took pictures and trying to hold him breathing as long as they could to wait for the superiority instructions, that’s what they do to a person who’s dying. They didn’t even try, they did not have, they did not pay any efforts to keep him alive before his situation is critical and everything they did is against the common directions from WHO to COVID19 infectors on that day. So I would like to say Dr. LI is probably murdered by them.
我不知道。可能只是为了做样子，人们……我不在现场，但是我的一个好朋友在现场，她说他们只是在拍照，试图让他呼吸，尽其所能，就是为了等待上级指示，这就是他们对一个死亡的人做的事情，他们没有试图（救治），他们没有做任何努力去救治他，在他（李文亮）的情况变得危重之前，他们在那一天做的每个措施都和世界卫生组织发布的新冠治疗原则相冲突。所以我说李医生也许是被他们谋杀的。
Q問：So you mentioned that he was a eye doctor he had no chance to be exposed… 所以你提到，他是一名眼科医生，他没有机会接触……
A答：He does have a chance, because you don’t know which patient come to you because they have eye problem, and they are also infected with COVID19, you don’t know. That could be possible. It is just too coincidental that he let out the rumor, he was, he stopped his job for a while, and was sent to his hospital, kept working on eye department and then he get infected, more importantly, he get tested and most of people, the government most likely do not give people a chance to test, because they don’t, they want to reduce the cases, reduce the positive cases officially, as as much as possible. So you know, I can’t believe they are coincidences.
他确实有可能（感染新冠），因为你不知道哪个因为眼睛问题来找你（治疗的）病人同时也被感染了新冠。你不知道。有这种可能，但是太巧合了。他（被认为）散布谣言，他被停职有一段时间，然后被派往他的医院，继续在眼科工作，然后他被感染了，更重要的是，他被检测（新冠）了，政府大多数时候不给人做检测的，因为他们不想，他们想减少记录在册的病例，减少阳性病例（数量），尽其所能减少。所以，我不敢相信这些都是巧合。
Q問：So are you suggesting that he could be… actually he wasn’t infected? 所以你是说他可能是……其实他没有被感染？
A答：He was infected, but I really doubt why he was infected. 他确实是被感染了，但我真的怀疑他为什么会被感染。
Q問：Okay, so you think… The source of infection… Okay. I heard, I read something about himself saying because he didn’t wear protection in his eye area or just wear a mask…所以你认为……感染源[很可疑]……
我听说，我读到一些关于他自己说的事，因为他的眼部没有戴保护装置 ……
A答：Around mid of January everyone in the hospital started to wear equipment. 一月中旬左右，每个在医院工作的人都开始佩戴防护设备
Q問：But he didn’t… 但他没有……
A答：He should have, otherwise he will not be allowed to get into the department. 他应该是戴了，否则他将不被允许进入科室。
Q問：So you think his infection was a little bit suspicious? 所以你认为他的感染有点可疑？
A答：Yes, it’s really suspicious. The actions they took on him, they didn’t treat him, they’re just saying he’s under quarantine, but actually not, he’s under arrest more likely. 是的，真的很可疑。从他们对他采取的行动来看，他们没有治疗他，他们只是说他在隔离，但实际上不是，他更象是被拘押。
Q問：So you doubt they purposely infected him and then let him die? 所以你怀疑他们故意感染他，然后让他死？
A答：Yes, that’s probably, kind of, it looks like kind of conspiracy but I believe this is completely possible. 是的，有可能，这看起来有点像阴谋论，但我相信这完全是可能的。
Q問：Okay, from his medical record on that day? 是从他那天的病历来看？
A答：On the whole time before his death. 从他死前的整个时间段来看。
Q問：Okay, so anything else you want to tell us, or I missed, I didn’t ask you, which I should? 那你还有什么想告诉我们的，或者我该问没问的？
A答：I think that’s probably all I could offer that would interest most of the people of how they did in the pandemic. 我想这可能就是我所能提供的，我想这就是大多数人感兴趣的，他们（中共）在疾病大流行期间的所作所为。
Q問：Okay, so yeah, that’s quite shocking. So you you think in the future what the world can do best is do not trust the CCP anymore? 好的，那是相当相当令人震惊的。 所以你认为在将来，世界能做的最好的事，就是不要再相信中共？
A答：No, never. 不，绝不要（相信中共）。
Q問：Okay. Anything else? 还有其他的吗？
A答：That’s it for now. 暂时就这些了。
Q問：Okay, thank you very much! 好的，非常感谢！
A答：You are welcome. 不客气。
9/28/2021*
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